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LarryCabading

Junior Member
Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 22
Reply with quote  #1 
Chief Denney was pitching a 2 day workshop on foreclosures thru his webinar, specifically REO's, more specifically purchasing REO's in bulk and selling them to us for 70 cents on the dollar. Just wondering if anyone had any experience with this guy??? Appreciate any feedback/comments.

Larry
rickencin

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Senior Member
Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 756
Reply with quote  #2 

Go to the home page and "Listen To Meetings" and listen to the April, 2006 meeting.  Sounds like an experienced investor. 


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Rick
rlfrerye

Junior Member
Registered: 05/07/07
Posts: 21
Reply with quote  #3 

He's incredibly knowledgeable and personable and has run the Real Estate Gammet extensively.  His partner is equally as talented. He's a marketer, but they both know their stuff.

manga

Senior Member
Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 57
Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryCabading
Chief Denney was pitching a 2 day workshop on foreclosures thru his webinar, specifically REO's, more specifically purchasing REO's in bulk and selling them to us for 70 cents on the dollar. Just wondering if anyone had any experience with this guy??? Appreciate any feedback/comments.

Larry


He is an excellent marketer. I would be EXTREMELY cautious. I do not know many that have positive results investing with him. I have lost money in his Go Zone deals, and do not know of anyone (other than himself) that actually profited from the deals he was pitching. Please look at other posts in this forum with his name on the posts. He used to post here but realized there are knowledgeable people on this board I think he moved elsewhere. Please listen to him and the next speaker (Bruce Norris) and draw your conclusions. It is also unfortunate that the end of the discussion was omitted in the recording as a lot of angry investors confronted him after the meeting - others members who were present at his talk can confirm  what I am telling you. I am certain he will not be speaking here again.

This is just my opinion of course.

Good luck.

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/sdcia/vpost?id=1774990&highlight=zone&trail=90

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/sdcia/vpost?id=2052723&highlight=zone


norcaldelta

Junior Member
Registered: 10/11/06
Posts: 30
Reply with quote  #5 
I'd guess it's been over a year since I attended Chief Denny's GoZone seminar, flew down from Sacramento with great curiosity. The presentation exceed my expectations, as did Chief's real estate knowledge. He's a very good speaker, apparently was a TV infomercial spokesman in another life. We had a great time and put down a deposit on several properties in MS and ALA.

Further investigation and risk assessment left me with some heartburn about whether these would be 'right' for me. Upon request they returned my deposits - no questions asked, no games - I thought it spoke to the integrity of the individuals.
larrywww

Senior Member
Registered: 08/29/06
Posts: 1,683
Reply with quote  #6 

The 2 recommendations are deficient, I think.

The first one is perfectly general. (Gamut is mispelled, BTW).
Although the 2nd poster praises his Gozone seminar, neither poster actually states that they made money on the Gozone deals.  The question remains: Did anyone who bought their Gozone properties actually end up making any money?

One other question is what they are marketing these days.  I do notice that Chief Denny gave a lecture at Socalcia on 7/24/08.  He also gave a lecture at Nsdrei on 10/21/08 that had the same name.  Did anyone attend either lecture?

 



MJohnson

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Senior Member
Registered: 06/15/06
Posts: 500
Reply with quote  #7 
Chief was selling based on the tax benefits and the hope of appreciation.  A few issues with that:

1. The tax benefits are dependent on having RE Professional status, which the IRS is cracking down on in a major way.  Investor-type activities no longer qualify, you need to be wearing a hard hat and yelling at contractors for at least 750 hours/year. 

2. Another issue I had with buying in the GoZone is the exit strategy.  When the tax benefits run out, who do you sell to?  I could be wrong, but it seems to me the way they set this up could create a flood of investors all looking to sell at the same time. 

3. Chief's properties did not cash flow (for which he offered an up-front payment of a few thousand to cover your losses over the first few years).  While you should definitely time your purchases around the market, I don't believe in buying properties based solely on hoping the market goes up (especially since the areas he was pitching had already seen 20-30% appreciation). 

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simonw

Senior Member
Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 110
Reply with quote  #8 
Be wary of the GoZone.

MJohnson pointed out several problems.

I believe if your exit strategy is 1031, you can only 1031
in the same area for the next 10 years.
So if you want to 1031 back into CA or other states you are SOL until 2018 if you bought this year.

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ISamson

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Senior Member
Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 2,302
Reply with quote  #9 

1031's  are not area specific.  They are type and timeline specific.

simonw

Senior Member
Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 110
Reply with quote  #10 
Yes normally 1031 are not area specific but if you are claiming the 50% tax depreciation in the GOZONE they are.
This is recent change to the tax code earlier this year.


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rlc

Senior Member
Registered: 05/01/06
Posts: 1,084
Reply with quote  #11 
 manga wrote: "He is an excellent marketer. I would be EXTREMELY cautious. I do not know many that have positive results investing with him. I have lost money in his Go Zone deals, and do not know of anyone (other than himself) that actually profited from the deals he was pitching."
 

simonw

Senior Member
Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 110
Reply with quote  #12 
Caveat emptor
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larrywww

Senior Member
Registered: 08/29/06
Posts: 1,683
Reply with quote  #13 

The best gurus like Bruce Norris and Ward Hannigan don't sell you properties, normally.  They point you in the general direction of deals and encourage you to give it a try.  They may even give you advice from the sidelines. And No, they aren't trying to sell you a bill of goods, 24/7.

However, whenever a guru is selling you a property (think especially of someone like Marshall Reddick), you always have to assume there is a serious profit margin.  Also, that they may have a conflict of interest in encouraging you to buy.   Especially when they are selling you out of state properties.

The problem is that there are so many hidden profit centers.  They get kickbacks from the mortgage broker, the listing agent, the property manager, the title company, the home inspector, the leasing agent, the insurance agent, the home warranty company, the property disclosure company, the builder, the contractor who is rehabbing it, the supplier who is selling supplies for the rehab---the list just goes on and on.  And if the property is commercial, there is a whole new range of service and product providers from whom you can also get kickbacks.  There is absolutely no way to know for sure what kickbacks are being paid to whom.  And this is in addition to whatever markup the guru takes on the original deal (which they don't reveal to you).   

As you say, it's caveat emptor time in a situaton like this.  Most investors get skinned at least once on out of state properties before they wise up.  Since there's no way to unravel the kickbacks in a situation like this, my advice would always to walk away unless you are getting a spectecular deal.

I hate to say it, but California buyers look like prime pigeons to most of those selling out of state real estate.

topgrouprealestate

Member
Registered: 07/02/10
Posts: 2
Reply with quote  #14 
This guy pitches on out of state properties. He buys them in bulks mark it up ridiculously and sell it out individually to newbies out of state. He has Go Zone, Houston, Tx, and some in the south. He has in house mortgage broker, own appraisers, and a bunch of others in house. Also, you'll be using RPM or Real Property mgmt once you buy prop. out of state, they're both sucks.

Here are a list of ppl who can give you more accuracy because they bought from him: Check out for yourself:

 Alisa Foster ;
Lisa Roduner
;
Shirley
;
Gabriel Carcamo

; William Ghali
;
Phil Warren
;
naveen@ascending-solutions.com;
Nina Komlik


topgrouprealestate

Member
Registered: 07/02/10
Posts: 2
Reply with quote  #15 
Alisa Foster alisafoster@me.com;
Lisa Roduner
lisa7910@yahoo.com;
Shirley
;
Gabriel Carcamo
carcamo.gabe@gmail.com;
; William Ghali willghali@yahoo.com;
 Phil Warren
phillipwarren@mac.com;
naveen@ascending-solutions.com;
Nina Komlik
nina_komlik@yahoo.com
carloslubin

Member
Registered: 10/03/11
Posts: 6
Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
The best gurus like Bruce Norris and Ward Hannigan don't sell you properties, normally. 

bruce norris sold properties in texas to california investors (the developers offered me less than norris's prices without me trying), bruce assumed under the theory californian would moved to other states based on past history and there texas appreciates.

i know 4, 5 people brought into that went through foreclosures, bankruptcies and divorces.

Quote:
However, whenever a guru is selling you a property (think especially of someone like Marshall Reddick)


what is interesting, if you hear the old cd series of bruce's bottom fishing - real deal series on live coldcalls (2003), bruce and marshall reddick are buddies. 

sdcia library still have the cds.
CGabhart

Senior Member
Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 2,086
Reply with quote  #17 
I don't believe anyone who tells me they are going to sell me a property at 70 cents on the dollar. 

You know what they say about to good to be true?

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MeredithD1

Member
Registered: 05/04
Posts: 2
Reply with quote  #18 

Denney has a new seminar he's giving for free and his people are in Portland Oregon this week: the last of the free seminars was yesterday, and then a class starts on Friday of next week and goes Saturday and Sunday.

Chief Denney’s Flip and Build Wealth Live Events Presents…Flip for Quick Cash "Crash Course" LIVE!

and then it's $3000 to get the package that includes classes that run next Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and a home course.

http://chiefportlandlive.com/index.html

Paul

Senior Member
Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 1,920
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeredithD1

Denney has a new seminar he's giving for free and his people are in Portland Oregon this week: the last of the free seminars was yesterday, and then a class starts on Friday of next week and goes Saturday and Sunday.

Chief Denney’s Flip and Build Wealth Live Events Presents…Flip for Quick Cash "Crash Course" LIVE!

and then it's $3000 to get the package that includes classes that run next Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and a home course.

http://chiefportlandlive.com/index.html



Second post ever. Must be a big Chief Denney fan.
Lenska

Junior Member
Registered: 04/12/08
Posts: 37
Reply with quote  #20 
He might have been a star in Flipping San Diego and has been in the business long enough to know how to get people to pay $3000 since so many gurus are riding the "fix & flip wave".
Just do your due diligence and double check his numbers. I did this in one of the markets he promoted 7years ago and decided not to invest. If you want to spend $3,000 then take Bruce Norris boot camp or join me for FREE at our rehab field trips. http://www.LENSKARealty.com
KARENY

Senior Member
Registered: 08/23/09
Posts: 201
Reply with quote  #21 
just another greasy guru.He came to the hotel I work at; his employees dont realize voices carry.  His salespeople were complaining that only 2 people bought their package so far; and they were talking about their commissions and how many thousands they make on the seminar[rolleyes]; unclassy guys!Keep your voices down.They sounded like used car salesmen;oops actually at least used car salespeople actually do sell you a used car.....
Suzanne

Senior Member
Registered: 03/21/05
Posts: 313
Reply with quote  #22 
Thank you Paul. I noticed that myself.  Wouldn't trust him at all.  Saw his TV crew and two busloads of starry-eyed clients who paid thousands for his wisdom.  He took them to a gutted property in SD that had passed through several inexperienced hands. I suspect he was trying to help Hard Money get another victim. Hard Money's strategy is to lend, collect the "skin" and then foreclose.  Press rewind and play again.  Very profitable strategy although I'm sure neighbors aren't happy.  Shortly after this bus tour the property went to a single person-who may have come from this bus tour.  A construction crew came in a few days here and there and doing a lot of talking and smoking cigarettes and property has yet again been foreclosed on by Hard Money.
JohnnyCash

Senior Member
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 3,822
Reply with quote  #23 
For those who may not know the Go-Zone was an area of Mississippi-Louisiana on the Gulf Coast that was wiped out by hurricane Katrina in 2005. Many residential areas within several miles of the coast were scraped clean by the wind driven Gulf waves.

In reaction Congress passed special legislation giving Go-Zone designated areas very special depreciation limits. If I recall correctly the time limit was 3 years and depreciation up to 50% in one year could be taken on newly constructed homes in the officially designated stricken areas.

While this plan worked on Federal Taxes it didn't apply to California state taxes. So many California investors were shocked when discovering this. In one case a Chief Denny California investor received a surprise of $28,000 in unanticipated California taxes.

Prices for housing rose from the devastating loss of inventory caused by Katrina. These were the prices offered by Mr. Denny (at the 70% discount). He admitted without being asked (in the presentation) that the properties would not produce a positive cash flow for the time being and gave cash incentives as compensation. Whether this was sufficient or not is clear in hindsight but not at the time.

The Federal tax advantages (even beyond the special depreciation) were a significant part of the investment advantage.

The state of Mississippi had grand plans for a big Casino (if I recall correctly) and other re-development of the devastated areas. The story was that employment opportunities would be good to rosy so financially able tenants would be plentiful.

I don't remember Mr. Denny's solution to the typical problems with remote management of Go-Zone properties from California. Whatever solution was offered I don't believe it overcame the typical problems with unreliable property managers. This is not a problem exclusive to Mr. Denny's Go-Zone deals. You are more likely to be abducted and probed by space aliens than you are to find a reliable remote property manager (my apologies in advance to anyone who had an enjoyable abduction experience).

The Go-Zone deal is fading from memory but at the time there was much dissatisfied discussion and I don't recall any favorable comments by the investors.

On the related topic of Marshall Reddick recall that he was forced into bankruptcy about 3 or 4 years ago.

Mr. Reddick is a pious appearing man, almost preacher-like in his presentation, always calm and conciliatory. He used that to good effect when confronted at a meeting by some very unhappy investors who had bought into his Baja California project around 2006.

This was the first project to my knowledge that gave American style Title Insurance on properties in Mexico. As I recall the Title Insurer was a recognized US company. As good as that sounds it wasn't enough to make the deals profitable ------ or the investors happy.

One particular Reddick student stands out. In about 2005-06 this particular student had accumulated about 20 or 30 residential investment properties (over a 2 or 3 year period) in several states (it took 2 Excel sheets to list all his houses, 1 line per house). He proudly showed his Excel sheet and exclaimed he had become a millionaire, based on appreciation in excess of mortgage balances. The "student" was an unemployed actor in his late 70s. His wife was a little younger with a low income clerical job.

Mr. Reddick advised and encouraged the student and of course he bought all his properties through the Reddick network and it's affiliates in other states. Mr. Reddick regularly put this student on the speaking schedule for his free real estate meetings.

The elderly student was on fire with real estate enthusiasm and Marshall Reddick. He encouraged all the prospective student-investors to follow his example and discard their inner "chicken". He was funny and entertaining with an appealing foreign accent, Eastern Europe I think. Interesting only for the fact that Eastern Europe is not well known for being the home of successful real estate investors or even private property for that matter.

There was one troubling fact, to me but not the student, he was about $60,000 per year in deficit when totaling gross rental income minus expenses, in particular loan payments. Just "refinance" one or two properties on the accumulated appreciation was his cavalier solution. After all it had worked for him for the last 3 years and he was going to buy more Marshall Reddick properties. Marshall would smile while sitting off to the side.

Then 2007 hit, I never saw the student again and there was never any discussion of his disappearance. Perhaps it was space aliens, let's hope he enjoyed receiving as much as he did giving.

Marshall Reddick remained pious and continued selling out of state properties to locals.

Then Marshall met the same fate as I am sure his student did a few years before him.

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"Nothing knits man to man like the frequent passage, from hand to hand, of cash." Walter Richard Sickert
Paul

Senior Member
Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 1,920
Reply with quote  #24 
The Marshall Reddick student was last seen with Casey Kasen.
JohnnyCash

Senior Member
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 3,822
Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
The Marshall Reddick student was last seen with Casey Kasen.


Paul ---- good timing, Casey was found last night. Still no word on Reddick's student, probably in the Pleiades by now.

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"Nothing knits man to man like the frequent passage, from hand to hand, of cash." Walter Richard Sickert
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