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larrywww

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Reply with quote  #1 

Fannie Mae permits the borrower to have 10 loans.  But this is a merely theoretical right.  As a practical matter, according to Bruce, the more realistic maximum # of loans is closer to 4.  The problem is that you need to find a lender that doesn't have a lender overlay imposing such limits.  I am informed that most of the big banks wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.  And the serious restrictions of Dodd Frank may have limited lender creativity.

Question: Do you know of any such lenders?

Bruce Norris has said that it's not as easy as it sounds.  You are required to have reserves to cover the multiple properties.
Norris has recently indicated that equity lines of credit are now only really returning to the marketplace to a substantial extent.

Although, even with his balance sheet, it took Bruce Norris over 3 months to get a line of credit recently.


Can anyone recommend a bank for a line of credit (that won't take 3 months, like it did for Bruce Norris)?  Or for a purchase loan (up to 10+ houses)?

brycewheeler

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Yes Larry,, I spent hundreds of hours to find lenders who will loan more than 4 loans, up to 10.  That was 5 or 6 years ago now.  One company is Wintrust.  Call Chaz (a gal) Vice Pres. I believe  Cell is 858=922-0645.   I have 10 loans now with 7 or so from that company and its predecossors who Chaz worked for.  They also did up to 10 loans including your residence.


Tell Chaz that Bryce Wheeler said to call her.

Bryce

brycewheeler

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Reply with quote  #3 
I have one or two more that I could dig out of file if anyone desparate.  They used to go for more than 4 loans.  Not as good a lender tho and service not as good.  Chaz works out of office on Saxony Road in Encinitas and has a good partner and a good staff oriented toward good service.  They have been great for me.

Bryce
larrywww

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Reply with quote  #4 
Sounds like a great find, Bryce.
Thanks for sharing!
brycewheeler

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I probably should have added that Wintrust does loans in many states.  They have made many loans for me in both California and Georgia, all over the 4 usual limit.


bryce
mlreits

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Reply with quote  #6 
Based on my experience, a mortgage broker or a smaller bank aka portfolio lender should be able to get you loans 5 to 10 without any issues. I've done it.

Refinance on rate and terms is also doable. Cash-out refinance is up to 6 mortgages before you'll have to go with a commercial loan aka ARM product. I would make a few phone calls to some mover and shakers in your market. They should be able to give you the right referrals.

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Minh

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larrywww

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Reply with quote  #7 
Yes, but, with all due respect:

You are in the hottest market in California.

And when Bruce Norris---with his portfolio----can't even get a line of credit for 3 months, even when the money being borrowed is absolutely dirt cheap---Well, you know something is out of whack.  The Inland Empire is also a cheaper area---and that is where Norris was seeking to refinance.

I am not sure which bank(s) you are dealing with--but I have heard that the Asian banks tend to be more flexible and receptive--which, of course, is not a bad thing.

Right now refinances may be more common, but I know alot of investors who got run around the block several years ago and haven't tried again until recently.


mlreits

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Reply with quote  #8 
We were able to obtain our 5th purchase loan in 18 days in early 2013. It was a short sale and we had 21 days to close. Our mortgage broker is fantastic.

I've also done cash-out refinance with Homestreet bank. With respect to refinance/cash-out refinance, it may takes a little longer, 45-60 days, but it pays to work with the right bank/mortgage broker based on my experience. Of course, it varies from market to market.

With respect to Chinese banks, they put you on ARMs. No 30-year fixed. Loans with no docs. 50-60% LTV at the most. 

With respect to Bruce, I was surprised to hear about it in his April 2017 newsletter. Based on the numbers, he's right that our market doesn't have much upside from here. According to his newsletter, the area that have been seeing the highest growth is the southeast. FL being number one followed by GA, SC and NC. This may explain why he moved his investing to FL.

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Minh

"Be formless, shapeless like water." Bruce Lee
larrywww

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Reply with quote  #9 
About Florida---that may have been true when Bruce invested.

But I rather think he got in just before they slammed the door shut.

If you look at Fannie Mae's delinquency, I think Bruce said in early 2015 it accounted for something like 25% of their losses.  (I think he may have been thinking about the 4th quarter of 2014 since figures may not have been available when he invested---but no matter).

The odd thing is that the other I took a look at Fannie Mae's report---and what I believe I found was that Florida accounted for something like 6% in the latest report---and California was now the leader----I seem to recall the number was like 19%.  (That assumes I was looking at the right chart---hard to do since they have a ton of charts).

Which I found to be kind of weird----I was on the verge of thinking that Florida was the new promised land.   But the window of opportunity Bruce took probably has passed---I think.

Although there is that stray remark by Bruce that, in the long run, Texas and Florida are going to attract all the migration, etc

But then again I haven't really researched this---and it doesn't matter to me---I'm not gong to Florida.
brycewheeler

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Reply with quote  #10 
On my 10 loans, all have been with 25% down, interest ranging from 3.75% to 4.75%, last two loans were at 4.5% a few months ago, property in Peachtree City, a suburb south of Atlanta, Georgia (a planned community like Irvine CA).  The 3.75% rate was on Calif. homes in north San Diego county three or four years ago.

Bryce
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