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Sly

Senior Member
Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 65
Reply with quote  #1 

    I see the introduction for the next sdcia meeting is
    Daniel Bruckner, claims he makes 40K profit three to seven
    times per month doing short sales. 

    It was going to take Jeff 30 years to get his 8 million, Daniel can
    get his 8 million in less than four years.

    When I flip through the TV channels and watch the world
    wrestling, there is a disclaimer "for entertainment purposes
    only" maybe that should be part of the introduction to this
    meeting.

    A skeptic like myself can be convinced if he would bring a legitimate
    copy of his 2006 federal income taxes returns.

    Sly
   
cal

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Senior Member
Registered: 04/04/06
Posts: 127
Reply with quote  #2 
Posted by Sly   
Quote:
I see the introduction for the next sdcia meeting is
    Daniel Bruckner, claims he makes 40K profit three to seven
    times per month doing short sales. 

    It was going to take Jeff 30 years to get his 8 million, Daniel can
    get his 8 million in less than four years.

    When I flip through the TV channels and watch the world
    wrestling, there is a disclaimer "for entertainment purposes
    only" maybe that should be part of the introduction to this
    meeting.

    A skeptic like myself can be convinced if he would bring a legitimate
    copy of his 2006 federal income taxes returns.


I would love to see that......I'll bet his dog ate it .......
   
cal

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Registered: 04/04/06
Posts: 127
Reply with quote  #3 

I think it may be a few years until buying property from a short sale and then reselling the home at a profit after your incurred expenses (holding cost escrow fees, loan fees, Realtor fees, taxes etc.) is profitable... if it was as easy as they say everyone would be doing it. If there is gold on top of the mountain are you going to teach people how to get it or are you going to keep it a secret?  

javipa

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Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 3,167
Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sly

I see the introduction for the next sdcia meeting is
Daniel Bruckner, claims he makes 40K profit three to seven
times per month doing short sales.

It was going to take Jeff 30 years to get his 8 million, Daniel can
get his 8 million in less than four years.

When I flip through the TV channels and watch the world
wrestling, there is a disclaimer "for entertainment purposes
only" maybe that should be part of the introduction to this
meeting.

A skeptic like myself can be convinced if he would bring a legitimate
copy of his 2006 federal income taxes returns.

Sly



Sly,

When was the last time you saw a tax return from anyone? I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater just because they made money-making claims I couldn't get my head around.

That said, I'm a "guru-aholic". I can't help myself...meetings...accountability groups...I still buy crap. However, I can smell a rat from at least 40 feet away. The first smell of rat is the boot camp offerings. You can't get refunds after you've attended the full camp. How many of us have gone through a boot camp thinking we have all we need to succeed, and discover we still don't have enough practical information. "So solly, you need more boot camps for that information". Uh, huh.

Rat smells include vague information; lack of specificity; and conceptual presentations...the exhortation to build your own marketing material is a classic...nobody wants to sell THAT information.   Yeah?   The remaining information is just fuzzy enough to remain impractical. This keeps the truly successful guru practitioners from generating true competition. Things are presented in such a way as to require perpetual training and mentorshiping

That was my criticism of "Chief" Denney a couple of weeks ago, encouraging Jeff the foreclosure victim in FL....to "go and make 50k in 90 days and not have any more money worries" (paraphrasing). Uh, huh.

That blithe, conceptual happy talk is the same guru approach that suckers bought up as their last hope of survival as far back as the '70's. ...lots of concepts, no nuts and bolts. This vague information is essentially true, but unusable at its present level of specificity. That's the trick. Sell concepts, not specifics...
-------------------------------
Now back to our program:

"Wow, have we got a boot camp for you! Role playing! One on one training! And...group hugs! For only $3,495! But only if your pre-register within the next 15 minutes. And if you register right now, we'll include a signed copy of a genuine Casey Serin "Trustee's Sale" notice!" But wait...there's more".
-------------------------------

Regarding Bruckner, he's been pursuing short sale transactions before anyone I know of in this market. He does present some serious, detailed information. I attended a highly "compressed" presentation of his and came away feeling like I got my money's worth. There were some marketing vagueness's in his material, but he had credibility with us, since we "knew" him before he was a guru.

Javipa









__________________
"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals." --- Henry Ford

"149 Ways (Plus One) To Find Motivated Sellers and Get Them To Find You"
>>>Click To Download http://sub2marketdomination.com/how-to-find-motivated-sellers/
Gekko

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Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 775
Reply with quote  #5 

i think if you are a "guru" and ask people to buy your products/services and make public claims of personally doing "40K profit three to seven times per month doing short sales" or making "$50k in 90 days" you should be willing and able and proud to prove it.  it's a credibility thing.

by the way, i didn't realize that was the same "chief" who was the recent club guest speaker that was on this very forum and was blowing smoke up jeff's ass about making $50k in 90 days.  how was his presentation?



"We're not in the real estate investment information business, Marc. This is show business!" - Robert Allen
  
http://www.johntreed.com/Reedgururating.html#anchor496881
2Encinitas

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Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 683
Reply with quote  #6 
Gecko,

That quote by Robert Allen is hearsay by John T. Reed.  He blasts every guru and has zero credibility.



__________________
Todd Toback
Subscribe to the No Limits Investing Podcast on Itunes: http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/no-limits-podcast/id525192157

http://www.nolimitsrealestateinvesting
Twitter: http://twitter.com/toddtoback
Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/7b2yudx
Pilot

Member
Registered: 06/15/06
Posts: 37
Reply with quote  #7 
I definitely believe there's something to that old saying, "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach". I would love to attend boot camps, seminars, and buy all the how-to schwag these guys sell, but something keeps me from doing it. Part of me believes there's a silver bullet of knowledge that will allow me to skip thru hard lessons learned and get to the payoff quickly. It's easy to rationalize spending a few hundred dollars if it will save you thousands. I think these guys count on that.

I lurk at the http://www.reiplace.com forum from time to time and have gotten some decent info searching thru old posts. I looked at Steve Cook's stuff on that site and was sorely tempted to buy something. Instead, I found his 3-day boot camp on ebay for $150. I'm about half way thru it, and it's torture. It's been so completely worthless so far, I don't know if I'll be able to finish it. But the eternal optimist in me will force me to listen to the rest of it hoping that it will get better. I'm soooooo glad I didn't spend $1,500 on the actual course.

I bought a couple of John T. Reed's books also. The 2 I did buy are mostly strolls down memory lane recalling deals of 20+ years ago. He does talk about some stategies that I'm not sophisticated enough to comment on, but they're all old deals. Mr. Star is mentioned several times in them.

For those of you like me who are hungry to learn thru books and seminars, I have 2 words of advice: Public Library. And ebay. I guess that makes 3 words.

Personally, I think the gurus are here on this site. Getting first hand info on mobile home parks, managing out of state property, screening renters, buying blue collar homes for cash flow, etc. is thrilling. You guys are the ones getting dirty in the real world and are kind enough to share your experiences with the wanabees like me.

Thanks to you all.
Sly

Senior Member
Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 65
Reply with quote  #8 


   Javipa said

   When was the last time you saw a tax return from anyone?
 
  __________________________________________________
 
   Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.
 
  Sly
javipa

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Senior Member
Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 3,167
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gekko

Me in blue

i think if you are a "guru" and ask people to buy your products/services and make public claims of personally doing "40K profit three to seven times per month doing short sales" or making "$50k in 90 days" you should be willing and able and proud to prove it. it's a credibility thing.

He did show pictures of houses he bought and how much money he made (and the transaction dates)

by the way, i didn't realize that was the same "chief" who was the recent club guest speaker that was on this very forum and was blowing smoke up jeff's ass about making $50k in 90 days. how was his presentation?

Um, yep. Lots of smoke. Maybe Jeff dropped off the map because the "chief" is mentoring him into making 50k in 90 days, and having no money worries?

Hmmm...maybe there's a "Chief Boot Camp" on the horizon for Jeff?



"We're not in the real estate investment information business, Marc. This is show business!" - Robert Allen

http://www.johntreed.com/Reedgururating.html#anchor496881

Be skeptical of anyone who promotes himself at the expense of others. Ie: John T. Reed

__________________
"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals." --- Henry Ford

"149 Ways (Plus One) To Find Motivated Sellers and Get Them To Find You"
>>>Click To Download http://sub2marketdomination.com/how-to-find-motivated-sellers/
RonaldStarr

Senior Member
Registered: 07/24/05
Posts: 1,445
Reply with quote  #10 

Todd Toback ""2encinitas"—CA--------------

 

“That quote by Robert Allen is hearsay by John T. Reed.  He blasts every guru and has zero credibility.”

 

I disagree profoundly with you.  You may not particularly like Jack Reed.  He does have some irritating qualities.  But he does NOT blast every guru.  If you studied the information available from the ones he recommends, you’d be getting good education, I feel.   For the gurus of which I have knowledge, I feel he is mostly accurate in his evaluations of them.  The fact that he says “do not recommend” for so many people is just a rather accurate perception of the reality, if you ask me.

He does have a somewhat negative bias and there are perhaps five or six people about whom he is negative that I would either feel neutral about or even recommend.

 

And his own information is good to excellent in my opinion.  Two of his books are within the top five books ever written about real estate investing, in my view, the tax avoidance one and the buying 20% below market value.

 

Good Educating Yourself*********Ron Starr********

 

 

RonaldStarr

Senior Member
Registered: 07/24/05
Posts: 1,445
Reply with quote  #11 

Sly—CA---------------

 

If you will go to the website www dot reiplace dot com, you will find quite frequent discussions of short sales.   Just do a search on the topic.  One person has recently written an article about it which is on the compantion website about subject to deals hosted by William Tingle.  I have not read it.

 

There is one post where one person claims to have made over $100K on a short sale deal.  Another post says that there was a huge discount taken by a bank.  As I recall, they were owed something like $70-80K and took a payoff of something like $15-18K.

 

And it does seem to becoming much more popular, with many people talking about them and wanting to know more about them.   I guess it makes sense that short sales would be a pretty good way to go with so many people upside down in their houses.

 

I understand that they often require quite a bit of effort and take long time to get through.

 

I’m  not planning to do them myself.  I suspect a lot of people who do them give in to a temptation to lie to the lender about the condition of the property and the condition of the real estate market in order to induce a reduction in what the lender will take as a payoff. 

 

Think of the model:

1—convince a lender that the property is not worth as much as their loan amount  Thus allowing the property to be sold for less than the loan amount.

2—convince a buyer that the property is worth much more than one paid for the property.

 

How can these two conditions be met if one is being honest? 

 

About the only way I can see that it might be true is if the property were rundown, one bought it cheap, and rehabbed it to create value—“forced appreciation.”  But many of those talking about short sales are talking about “wholesaling” them, not rehabbing them.  That means that they buy cheap, with the banks permission, and turn around and immediately resell to a rehabber for considerably more than they paid for the property.

Good Short Sale Investigating**********Ron Starr**************

2Encinitas

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Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 683
Reply with quote  #12 
Ron,

Let me clarify my statement.  I do not know anything about his coaching material.  He could have great information, and know that you have suggested his book, I will probably read it.

However, i have read his sight on the Guru's rating.  I disagree with much of what he has said.  I have made lots of money with materials from Legrand, Claude Diamond, Conti/Finkel, and even Robert Allen. Obviously, if you never take action, there info is useless. 

Thanks for the book tip;

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldStarr

Todd Toback ""2encinitas"—CA--------------

 

“That quote by Robert Allen is hearsay by John T. Reed.  He blasts every guru and has zero credibility.”

 

I disagree profoundly with you.  You may not particularly like Jack Reed.  He does have some irritating qualities.  But he does NOT blast every guru.  If you studied the information available from the ones he recommends, you’d be getting good education, I feel.   For the gurus of which I have knowledge, I feel he is mostly accurate in his evaluations of them.  The fact that he says “do not recommend” for so many people is just a rather accurate perception of the reality, if you ask me.

He does have a somewhat negative bias and there are perhaps five or six people about whom he is negative that I would either feel neutral about or even recommend.

 

And his own information is good to excellent in my opinion.  Two of his books are within the top five books ever written about real estate investing, in my view, the tax avoidance one and the buying 20% below market value.

 

Good Educating Yourself*********Ron Starr********

 

 


__________________
Todd Toback
Subscribe to the No Limits Investing Podcast on Itunes: http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/no-limits-podcast/id525192157

http://www.nolimitsrealestateinvesting
Twitter: http://twitter.com/toddtoback
Facebook: http://tinyurl.com/7b2yudx
RonaldStarr

Senior Member
Registered: 07/24/05
Posts: 1,445
Reply with quote  #13 
Todd Toback ""2Encinitas"—CA--------------

Thank you for your clarification.

As I said, I think that his bias toward the negative does cause him to "not recommend" some people who may have worthwhile information.

Of course, he is very negative on very high-priced material, especially for those aimed at beginners.  I feel the same way.  This may  make him "not recommend" some materials or people who may provide worthwhile information, albeit rather high-priced material.

Good Investing and Good Posting********Ron Starr********


Reply with quote  #14 
"I see the introduction for the next sdcia meeting is
    Daniel Bruckner, claims he makes 40K profit three to seven
    times per month doing short sales. "
-----------------------------------------------
Then why is he wasting his time doing seminars?

Maybe he just wants you to be rich. LOL.

They make their money selling seminars and books. To the gullible.
Vegas1

Junior Member
Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #15 
Chief or Daniel or other speakers who make fantastic claims of easy money can eliminate skepticism by providing details such as addresses, rather than pictures that provide little information.  Without details, the tales of riches they've made ring hollow.
If they don't feel comfortable providing addresses and other substantiating details, they shouldn't feel comfortable providing specific dollar or percentage gain figures on their deals.



javipa

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Senior Member
Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 3,167
Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldStarr

Sly—CA---------------

If you will go to the website www dot reiplace dot com, you will find quite frequent discussions of short sales. Just do a search on the topic. One person has recently written an article about it which is on the compantion website about subject to deals hosted by William Tingle. I have not read it.

There is one post where one person claims to have made over $100K on a short sale deal. Another post says that there was a huge discount taken by a bank. As I recall, they were owed something like $70-80K and took a payoff of something like $15-18K.

And it does seem to becoming much more popular, with many people talking about them and wanting to know more about them. I guess it makes sense that short sales would be a pretty good way to go with so many people upside down in their houses.

I understand that they often require quite a bit of effort and take long time to get through.

I’m not planning to do them myself. I suspect a lot of people who do them give in to a temptation to lie to the lender about the condition of the property and the condition of the real estate market in order to induce a reduction in what the lender will take as a payoff.

Think of the model:

1—convince a lender that the property is not worth as much as their loan amount Thus allowing the property to be sold for less than the loan amount.

2—convince a buyer that the property is worth much more than one paid for the property.

How can these two conditions be met if one is being honest?

About the only way I can see that it might be true is if the property were rundown, one bought it cheap, and rehabbed it to create value—“forced appreciation.” But many of those talking about short sales are talking about “wholesaling” them, not rehabbing them. That means that they buy cheap, with the banks permission, and turn around and immediately resell to a rehabber for considerably more than they paid for the property.

Good Short Sale Investigating**********Ron Starr**************



Wow Ron,

I don't believe that successful short saling is a matter of somehow giving in to a temptation to [dishonestly] convince the bank that a property is not worth the loan amount, and then turning around to lie to buyers about the property's value.  Is that what you really mean to say?

Otherwise, the bank knows that I'm an investor.  They know I'm there to make a profit.  And I offer them a price with which I can make a profit.  I'm not there on a humanitarian mission to save the bank's butt.  They took a risk, and I'm partly removing any future risk of loss to them, and partly improving the ratio of performing loans...for a personal profit.

That said, I have no qualms about demonstrating to the bank just exactly what I feel their property is worth to me as an investor, and ...by showing/persuading them why it's in their best interest to sell to me at something close to my offering price.  My reputation and credibility are my trade.  So I would never jeopardize my credentials with a lie.   That said, it's not my business to educate the bank about any other alternatives they may have, other than what I have to offer them and why.
---------------------------------

Short sale negotiations only go so far and so long before I disqualify the property.  I can expect a final answer in my negotiations within about a month and a half of my initial offer.  Anything longer than that is likely a waste of my time, or the property has become an REO in the meantime.
----------------------------------

Maybe I'm naive, but the perspective that one can only be successful in SS merchandising is by giving in to a temptation to lie to both buyers and sellers doesn't ring true for the professional investors I know.  Maybe this is true with amateurs who aren't in this for the long haul.

Here's for being real!

Javipa




__________________
"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals." --- Henry Ford

"149 Ways (Plus One) To Find Motivated Sellers and Get Them To Find You"
>>>Click To Download http://sub2marketdomination.com/how-to-find-motivated-sellers/
javipa

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Senior Member
Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 3,167
Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas1
Chief or Daniel or other speakers who make fantastic claims of easy money can eliminate skepticism by providing details such as addresses, rather than pictures that provide little information. Without details, the tales of riches they've made ring hollow.
If they don't feel comfortable providing addresses and other substantiating details, they shouldn't feel comfortable providing specific dollar or percentage gain figures on their deals.


Vegas1,

When you go to therapy, do you insist that the therapist provide copies of all their completed coursework and their grade point average?

Just kidding!
------------------------------
It seems to us that we either trust the guru, or we don't. Either his material is viable, cogent, and practical or it's not.  We're quite willing to bet that the very best material out there, promises of riches and all, have a 99% chance of remaining on the reader's shelf, until boxed and dumped somewhere down the road.  Even if they believed what the guru said was possible, most readers are only curious, but not engaged.

That said, we know three investors here in CA that started their careers in real estate being inspired by none other than Carleton Sheets infomercials.  Now, we know that Carleton's material is simplistic and rudimentary.  But Carleton talked about big deals and how easy it was to invest in real estate with no money and/or no credit.  Anyway our friends believed it...even though Carleton was pushing the non-existent, FHA no-qual assumptions in his courses, and we can bet didn't buy very many juicy deals with no credit or cash.

So what? you may ask.  We just say, we get out of the material what we want out of it.  Does it really make a difference if the teacher was successful or not?  Frankly, if you knew our economics teacher, you'd say she probably couldn't manage her checkbook.  Meantime, we learned valuable information from her lectures.

Today, there's not much new under the sun, except to say that we still buy guru crap because we need fresh reminders and inspiration.  No two gurus explain "how to boil water" exactly the same way as the other might.  So, it's fun to hear from a fresh perspective on "how to boil water".

Waxing philosophic here....

We say be open to new ideas, approaches, strategies...and take the emotional, spiritual, and intellectual risks.  Otherwise, it's too easy to adopt a "scarcity mentality" or a "zero sum" approach to life, where any misstep we make requires that a piece of our lives be taken from us...rather than using that same misstep as a course correction to get us where we're headed.  This includes wasting money on bad RE materials once in a while.

Javipa

__________________
"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals." --- Henry Ford

"149 Ways (Plus One) To Find Motivated Sellers and Get Them To Find You"
>>>Click To Download http://sub2marketdomination.com/how-to-find-motivated-sellers/
Vegas1

Junior Member
Registered: 08/17/05
Posts: 41
Reply with quote  #18 
Javipa,  

My point is only that it's very easy to provide addresses for real deals.  Those who don't provide details are probably not as good as they tell you they are.  If someone makes a general claim like, "Do what I teach and you can make money"-fine.  If someone makes a specific claim like, "Do what I teach and you can make $40,000 a week like I have for the past three years"-I want backup for the claim.

Per your point that even bad gurus can provide value, I agree that if they prod someone off the couch and into action, the end result can be good--but primarily through sheer luck.  The problem is the flip side, when someone inexperienced, like Jeff on this board, is prodded into bold action based on the wildly optimistic claims and blather of a guru(s) that ignores risks, and well . . .

Now for an experienced investor like you, the bad guru may provide real value because he may motivate you or give you a new idea AND you have the judgment to separate wheat from chaff.



  
javipa

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Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 3,167
Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas1
Javipa,

My point is only that it's very easy to provide addresses for real deals. Those who don't provide details are probably not as good as they tell you they are. If someone makes a general claim like, "Do what I teach and you can make money"-fine. If someone makes a specific claim like, "Do what I teach and you can make $40,000 a week like I have for the past three years"-I want backup for the claim.

Per your point that even bad gurus can provide value, I agree that if they prod someone off the couch and into action, the end result can be good--but primarily through sheer luck. The problem is the flip side, when someone inexperienced, like Jeff on this board, is prodded into bold action based on the wildly optimistic claims and blather of a guru(s) that ignores risks, and well . . .

Now for an experienced investor like you, the bad guru may provide real value because he may motivate you or give you a new idea AND you have the judgment to separate wheat from chaff.


Vegas1,

Very well put! I completely agree with your remarks.

Javipa

__________________
"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals." --- Henry Ford

"149 Ways (Plus One) To Find Motivated Sellers and Get Them To Find You"
>>>Click To Download http://sub2marketdomination.com/how-to-find-motivated-sellers/
haggis

Senior Member
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 116
Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sly

    I see the introduction for the next sdcia meeting is
    Daniel Bruckner, claims he makes 40K profit three to seven
    times per month doing short sales. 

    It was going to take Jeff 30 years to get his 8 million, Daniel can
    get his 8 million in less than four years.

    When I flip through the TV channels and watch the world
    wrestling, there is a disclaimer "for entertainment purposes
    only" maybe that should be part of the introduction to this
    meeting.

    A skeptic like myself can be convinced if he would bring a legitimate
    copy of his 2006 federal income taxes returns.

    Sly
   


Agreed.

Any other investment regime pretty much demands federally mandated profit & loss statements. Profit of $40K X 3-7 times per month suggests a rather sizable operation. That would be - I'd guess - way past $1 MM per month gross. At least a big deal a week. And a few employees. So a P&L statement should be readily at hand to verify his 'Guru-ness'. In fact, it should be offered up as validation of his 'Guru-ness'.

It's quite amazing that your very salient point has been so waffled about. Its remarkable that the first thing on the agenda isn't a validation of the speakers qualifications. Regardless of whether you like or dislike the Guru, a basic & qualified third party endorsement should be a preamble to taking any advice seriously.

Else, why not get your local McDonalds clerk to do engineering drawings on his word that he's an aspiring engineer? Or let him do your dental work on his assertion that he's studying dentistry?

Cheers, Haggis

Gekko

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Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 775
Reply with quote  #21 


"My guru-rating page often elicits email from visitors who desperately want to believe in a particular guru. Even though I have refuted what the guru says, the visitors say, "But they have all those testimonials from average people who got rich using the course. Are you saying those people are lying? The government wouldn't let them get away with that!" Oh, yes they would and they do."

http://www.johntreed.com/testimonials.html


RonaldStarr

Senior Member
Registered: 07/24/05
Posts: 1,445
Reply with quote  #22 
Jay--CA----------

I think he spelled his name "Pirano."  

I met him a few times and he was a very good salesman.

Good Investing and Good Posting*******Ron Starr********
2Encinitas

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Senior Member
Registered: 10/26/05
Posts: 683
Reply with quote  #23 
Gekko,

Just FYI.  Back in 2001, i did a deal where I flipped my first condo.  The profit on the condo was around 80K.  I took home 40K.  Anyway, I called Robert Allens office and let them know about the deal.  I had just finished one of his books and it gave my what I needed to do the deal. 

Anyway an infomercial crew came out to my house 4 days later and filmed me for Robert Allen and Mark Victor Hansens One Minute Millionare infomerical.  My deal was featured in the video, and everything I said was true.  They didn't ask me to exagerate or tell a half truth.  You can see it pretty much on any weeknight (after 10.pm) of course.

My point is If I know my testimonial was a real testimonial, and these guys drove two hours to come see me, they are not digging up actors for these things.  It took them time and energy to do this. 

Did Robert Allen give me everything I needed in his book?  No, of course not. 
But he gave me enough information to get me started and take action.  I made some mistakes, learned some more, and moved on to the next deal.  I have no idea why John T. Reed would say that-when he has no idea.  I am telling you that my testimonial in his infomercial is real-period.  Take it from you will.....I have yet to hear of somebody coming forward and saying they were paid to be an acto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gekko


"My guru-rating page often elicits email from visitors who desperately want to believe in a particular guru. Even though I have refuted what the guru says, the visitors say, "But they have all those testimonials from average people who got rich using the course. Are you saying those people are lying? The government wouldn't let them get away with that!" Oh, yes they would and they do."

http://www.johntreed.com/testimonials.html



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michaelr

Senior Member
Registered: 04/17/05
Posts: 1,149
Reply with quote  #24 
IMO the thing that most people under emphasize  and seem to overlook is finding the deal.  Its great to have all this book/seminar/boot camp knowledge.  But w/o the deal you aint got s#*t. 

I think smart money/time focuses on finding the deal...  Then figuring out how to structure it if its less than conventional.  Not vice-verse.

Any re scenario can hypothetically net you big $$$$.   

The reason why people don't talk about this is because its a lot of time, effort, and actual W O R K finding the deal. 

I think its tantamount to losing weight.  We as consumers spend countless $$ on bs pills,books,atkins,programs etc etc.  When we all know the real secret to lose weight.... eat right and exercise  ie. W O R K for it.
RobertCampbell

Senior Member
Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 6,399
Reply with quote  #25 

Michael,

The reason why people don't talk about this is because its a lot of time, effort, and actual W O R K finding the deal.  
 
Is that what you think?  LOL
 
You're exactly right.  Most people want money to rain down from the sky.  It's not easy getting (and staying) rich.
 
Best wishes,
 
Robert Campbell


javipa

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Senior Member
Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 3,167
Reply with quote  #26 
Ron,

OK, here's your example of a dishonest dealer.

Today on Craigslist:

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/rfs/337735662.html

I asked the agent if the "small down payment" was just to cover the agent's fees so the owner could carry the purchase price?

Answer: "No. The owner will carry a small amount and you must get a new loan; the units are vacant, have no track record, but we can fudge the numbers and come up with something the bank will accept to get around the fact that the property isn't currently performing, etc., etc.

I interrupted the agent and informed him that his ad says the "seller is desperate", will owner finance with a small down....and....I have no intention of lying to get money to buy a non-performing property. I only called because your ad said the owner was desperate and would owner-finance with a small down. So, how small is the down?" I asked.


Just short of cursing at me he told me to "Have a nice day", and hung up.

So, there it is. Another example of why people don't trust real estate agents. They lie.

Hopefully (predictably) this agent won't be in this business for the long haul.

Javipa

P.S. Anyone read this ad and think that the seller wasn't offering to finance this property with a small down?  Or am I losing it?





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Gekko

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Registered: 06/27/06
Posts: 775
Reply with quote  #27 

nice.  looks like Gitmo.





sdlocal619

Senior Member
Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 520
Reply with quote  #28 

Where is that?  Looks like a town you drive through on the way to Vegas,  as I remember but correct me if Im wrong, california city? or mountain city?     I was chuckling at the gitmo comment.....kinda does look like it.          cheers all

samzell

Senior Member
Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 688
Reply with quote  #29 
"That quote by Robert Allen is hearsay by John T. Reed.  He blasts every guru and has zero credibility."
---->Funny I would say the exact opposite and say Reed has the most credibility.  He's the only guru I know with the balls to list the addresses of the properties he owns on his web site.   It's also NOT true that he blasts everyone, he recommends John Scuab, Bob Bruss and many others. 
 
"Chief or Daniel or other speakers who make fantastic claims of easy money can eliminate skepticism by providing details such as addresses, rather than pictures that provide little information.  Without details, the tales of riches they've made ring hollow.
If they don't feel comfortable providing addresses and other substantiating details, they shouldn't feel comfortable providing specific dollar or percentage gain figures on their deals."
----->TOTALLY agree.   You pay $19.95 for carfax before buying a $5,000 used car, why shouldn't you get proof a guru has made money doing what they teach (versus getting rich on being master information salesman) before you spend $4,995 on a boot camp?    I think many guru's quake in fear at the A word (address).
 
"IMO the thing that most people under emphasize  and seem to overlook is finding the deal.  Its great to have all this book/seminar/boot camp knowledge.  But w/o the deal you aint got s#*t. "
----->Totally agree again. 
 
 
So what? you may ask.  We just say, we get out of the material what we want out of it.  Does it really make a difference if the teacher was successful or not?  Frankly, if you knew our economics teacher, you'd say she probably couldn't manage her checkbook.  Meantime, we -----learned valuable information from her lectures.
----->I disagree with your analogy.  I think in theoretical/informational studies like economics, history, etc...it's OK to not have a doer teach.  But for a NON-theoretical sport like real estate I think it's critical the person has done what they are teaching, and done it fairly recently.   The best business schools have teachers that have been DOERS in business area they teach.  How would you like to learn auto shop from a guy who has only read books on fixing cars?!
 
I worked as a technology marketing consultant right out of college.  It was a joke how we would get assigned to write custom market analysis reports for companies like IBM on how to enter certain markets and they would pay tens of thousands for that crap!  We had absolutely NO idea what we were talking about!!!   I always likened it to selling reports to Michael Jordan on how to improve his basketball skills without ever having picked up a basketball yourself!
 
 
 
 
 
 


 



 
 
javipa

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Senior Member
Registered: 09/20/06
Posts: 3,167
Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by samzell
 
Me in purple. 

"That quote by Robert Allen is hearsay by John T. Reed. He blasts every guru and has zero credibility."
---->Funny I would say the exact opposite and say Reed has the most credibility. He's the only guru I know with the balls to list the addresses of the properties he owns on his web site. It's also NOT true that he blasts everyone, he recommends John Scuab, Bob Bruss and many others.

Who is being quoted in Gekko's entry?  Allen or Reed?

"Chief or Daniel or other speakers who make fantastic claims of easy money can eliminate skepticism by providing details such as addresses, rather than pictures that provide little information. Without details, the tales of riches they've made ring hollow.

What claims are Chief and Daniel actually making.  I've never heard Daniel make a claim. He just shares what he's done and shows pictures.  But having heard him three times, I've yet to hear him say I can do what he's doing.

I'm no apologist for Daniel, but he just gives detailed information about what he does, but at this point has promised me squat.  Might we be interpreting his success stories as promises, instead of just success stories?   I can see where we might infer promises of success when we're presented with some educational strategy, or asked to duplicate someone's investing approach, but indirect inferences are not promises.  I suppose someone might think I'm splitting hairs...

Whomever said finding the deal was more important than the structure of the deal was correct.  I've found that the structure really falls into place when I'm with a motivated seller.  I'm not sure I ever motivated a seller with my structure.  However, I've found many motivated sellers that I found a structure for.

Does this make sense?


If they don't feel comfortable providing addresses and other substantiating details, they shouldn't feel comfortable providing specific dollar or percentage gain figures on their deals."
----->TOTALLY agree. You pay $19.95 for carfax before buying a $5,000 used car, why shouldn't you get proof a guru has made money doing what they teach (versus getting rich on being master information salesman) before you spend $4,995 on a boot camp? I think many guru's quake in fear at the A word (address).

I don't care if they show me addresses or not.  This is the age of the internet. I just Google a review of anyone selling anything and see what is being said.  I did this with William Tingle last year.  Very interesting feedback.  I think that's why JTR's reviews are so popular (if not wrong) because he has something to say about everybody and many of us want to  reduce our risk (and sometimes learn things without paying for it).

If you announced that you owned 40 properties, and half of them were free and clear with all the addresses, etc. do you think there might be someone that would consider taking advantage of that information at your expense?


"IMO the thing that most people under emphasize and seem to overlook is finding the deal. Its great to have all this book/seminar/boot camp knowledge. But w/o the deal you aint got s#*t. "
----->Totally agree again.
Amen!

So what? you may ask. We just say, we get out of the material what we want out of it. Does it really make a difference if the teacher was successful or not? Frankly, if you knew our economics teacher, you'd say she probably couldn't manage her checkbook. Meantime, we -----learned valuable information from her lectures.
----->I disagree with your analogy. I think in theoretical/informational studies like economics, history, etc...it's OK to not have a doer teach. But for a NON-theoretical sport like real estate I think it's critical the person has done what they are teaching, and done it fairly recently. The best business schools have teachers that have been DOERS in business area they teach. How would you like to learn auto shop from a guy who has only read books on fixing cars?!

That's a valid point.  I guess I've learned some good stuff from people that were not as competent or as focused on RE as I was.

Javipa

__________________
"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals." --- Henry Ford

"149 Ways (Plus One) To Find Motivated Sellers and Get Them To Find You"
>>>Click To Download http://sub2marketdomination.com/how-to-find-motivated-sellers/
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